Mind, Money & Marketing Show – Episode #9 – Serious Webinar Alchemy with Stephen Renton

UnknownThe official definition of alchemy – “the medieval forerunner of chemistry, concerned with the transmutation of matter, in particular with attempts to convert base metals into gold or find a universal elixir.”

In todays interview with the lovely Stephen Renton he’s talking to us about how to turn your webinars into GOLD!

Stephen has become widely known as the guy behind some of the most successful product launches online. he’s worked with 100’s of well known names and shown them how to construct high converting webinars that sell!

Add to that, he’s a super nice guy and I’m proud to say he’s become a friend of mine over the last couple of years even though he’s Scottish (we won’t hold that against him!)

Watch the interview below and find out why Stephen may be donning a leotard by the end of the show!

Please note Stephen & I presented a LIVE webinar & masterclass recently all about How to Host 5 Figure Webinars!. If you would like to know more about the secrets behind creating super profitable webinars, then these presentations are for you!

Discover How to Host 5 Figure Webinars Here


Get More of Stephen Renton

Find Stephen on Facebook

And as mentioned in the interview here are the links for …

Influence – The Psychology of Persuasion
Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Favourite Quote

If you go out to create products of quality, you deliver value and quality to your audience, you treat them well, your business is just going to grow exponentially.

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Raw Transcript of the Interview

Jo: And we’re live. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another fantastic episode of Mind, Money, and Marketing.


And today, I have a super special guest. I’m really excited to speak to this guy this morning, actually, because it’s actually the first time that we have spoken face to face. We’ve spoken so many times on Skype and over on Facebook and everything. It’s the first time we’ve kind of gotten together face to face, but this gentleman is a bit of a webinar guru.

We’re going to be talking about webinars this morning, and not only that though, he has this uncanny ability to make connections with everybody and anybody that matters. I’ve never known anybody who knows so many people and the stories behind how he makes those connections are just fantastic.

He just goes and takes the bull by the horns and just starts [to] mastermind meetings and all sorts of stuff. I mean, no fear is involved here. So I’m going to delve into the mindset of somebody who doesn’t seem to let anything hold him back from what he wants to do.

But if you want to know about how to run and host really, really effective webinars and hangouts, in fact, then you are on the right call today because I am speaking to the very lovely Stephen Renton. Hello, Steve. How are you doing?

Steve: Hi, Jo. I’m great, thank you. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. I wanted to meet me after hearing that. [laughs]

Q; [laughs] Look at that wonderful background as well, all those palm trees and everything going on behind. So what’s the temperature where you are? Is it nice and warm?

Steve: Today is probably just under about 80 degrees right now. We’re in San Diego. One of the benefits of living the Internet marketing lifestyle: you can be where you want. I thought, rather than do the hangout from the office with the boring wall of satin curtains behind me; I’d try it here with the wifi. So far it seems to be working great. So, yeah, welcome to California, guys.

Jo: So you’d rather be in San Diego than Scotland right now, would you? [laughs]

Steve: Oh, just a tad. I’m going back Christmas, but I’m getting the most out of it here. I went surfing yesterday and I’m going to yoga class today, so I’m doing the California thing right now before I go back to winter in Scotland.

Jo: [laughs] Do you wear a leotard when you do yoga?

Steve: [laughs] Most definitely not, Jo. I’ve got my spandex purple [inaudible 00:02:34] shorts. No, I haven’t gone quite that Californian.

Jo: [laughs] Anyway, Stephen, before we kind of get into some of the key stuff, I know you’ve got some really, really good stuff to share with us about webinars and hangouts. Before we go into that, let’s talk about you and why are you in San Diego? Tell us the last few years of your life, in ten seconds flat, that’s brought you to where you are today.

Steve: OK. Sure. Well, I did corporate I.T. work for many, many years, a couple of decades probably. It was great and I could work all over the world, but at the end of the day, I’d like to go traveling, have adventures and I always had to go back to a big city, like London, to work.

It was getting more and more difficult to leave the fun places and go back to somewhere like London and put a suit and a tie on and go work in the corporate world. So a couple of years ago, I decided I wanted to look into Internet marketing. That’s when I first started looking at webinars.

The guy that I was working with and was being my mentor at the time was one of the first guys ever to start doing auto webinars before they even existed. It was custom coded scripts and all kinds of weird and funky stuff, years and years ago before any of these other tools came out. I started learning about that. I spent some time over in Florida, which was interesting. A little bit too hot for me and they have no sense of humor there.

I was at the point I’d stop telling jokes because I thought I was going to get shot and one day, there was a marketing event in San Diego. Frank Kern was there and I flew over. I want to meet Frank Kern. Like every newbie, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Flew over. The event was fantastic. I fell in love with San Diego. As soon as I stepped off the plane, there’s no air conditioning, unlike Florida, which is like a swamp.

So, I loved it immediately and after this marketing party, which was amazing, after a couple of drinks I actually posted on Facebook, “Hey, this is amazing. We’re moving to San Diego.” Then about 15 seconds later I got a reply back on Facebook from my wife going, “Oh, are we?” [laughs]

And then I went, “Hm, time to go shopping,” and that was how I ended up in San Diego. Fell in love with the place. Great marketers, great lifestyle. Everybody’s really friendly and helpful over here. There’s no dog-eat-dog stuff. Everyone’s into the abundance mindset and I love it. It’s great.

Jo: Wow. And so you just what? You just packed in your job? You just said right there, “Sir, I’m packing up my job and I’m just going to go on this new adventure?”

Steve: Pretty much. The jobs I was doing was always contract work and consultancy work, so I could come and go. But every single time I left, after three months or six months of saying, “OK, I’m never going back again…” and I think the last time I left, I deliberately burned some bridges, cut my ties figuratively and I just said, “No, I’m going to go make a go at this.”

That’s really when you start to succeed at stuff like marketing because if you do it half-ass and you think, “I’ll try this and I’ll try that,” and you get distracted and you don’t really jump in with both feet, you’re never going to make it if you make the decision. I wouldn’t recommend anybody quit their job like I did, but just go balls to the wall [through that] with one thing, learn it, stick with it until you make it work.

That’s how you can become a success and that was the kind of mindset that I went into with this and it’s worked. As you mentioned before, I seem to be very well connected. I have this insane ability that I didn’t know about before to connect with people and make a lot of partnerships. I think the funny accent over here probably helps. But, yeah, it’s been great.

Jo: Oh, that’s wonderful. I love the way you say you had an ability that you didn’t realize you had. I’ve just been reading a book called Unique Ability that asks you to start looking at what you think your unique abilities are and I must say, one of yours, without a doubt, you are an amazing connector. But the great thing… I think one of the things that makes you such an amazing connector is that you’re generous.

You’re very generous with your connections. If somebody needs something, you tend to know the person for them to go to and you’re just instantly, “Oh, go and talk to this person.” You don’t hold anything back, so I think that kind of generosity is what then brings people back to you. That’s fantastic.

The last couple of years you’ve really stuck with webinars, haven’t you? When you say, you know, on one thing, go for it and then, keep your mind on one thing, you really have done webinars for the whole time you’ve been in this game, haven’t you?

Steve: Pretty much. As I said, I came from a corporate I.T. background and I’ve been a computer geek all my life. That’s why I was very surprised to find out I was good at networking because I’m traditionally at the back of the room or working on code and maybe talking to a couple, but not networking all over the place.

So, I was at the stage where I didn’t really want to learn 57 new things, every couple of months. My head’s getting full enough and for something to go in, I think something else has to drop out at this stage, so I kind of decided I wanted to learn one thing, learn it well and I just looked at what was going to be the most productive thing, what gives you the best results, the most profits and just concentrate on that, rather than going in baby steps and learning system A, system B, system C and working my way up.

So that’s what I did. I’ve concentrated in that for a couple of years now. I’ve got a closed door [JV] group. I’ve been helping a lot of those guys with the webinars. Probably a lot of marketing people that are listening to this would actually know I’ve been helping them with their webinars and their conversions, figuring out how to tweak things and make them better. I’ve worked at a few private clients now and, of course, at the moment, my whole launch with Webinar Alchemy is ongoing and I’m bringing all this up to everybody else now.

Jo: So tell me, what is it about webinars? Why are webinars so powerful?

Steve: Well, I think, basically, it’s the trust that you bond with your audience and you build a trust with… these days, a lot of people are finding out for online marketing that… when it first kind of started out it was very easy to throw up a sales page and any kind of testimonials and people would just buy. But nowadays, people are becoming a little bit more wise to the fact that maybe some sales pitches are quite as authentic as should be and some of the testimonials might be fake.

It’s a lot more difficult for somebody to get on a webinar and talk for an hour and be fake, because people can… all of our communication is through how people move, how they speak. If you can see somebody, you can read the expressions in their face.

So there’s a couple of great things about that and it allows you to build this trust with your audience because they can tell that you know your subject matter. They can tell you’re an expert. You’re not just bullshitting. Can I say that? Yes, I can. [laughs]

Jo: Yes, it’s fine. [laughs]

Steve: And then, the other thing is, on a sales pitch, you’ve got to work really hard to get it to convert. You got to have all the psychological triggers, say the right things, pay expensive copywriters, have a designer make the page, blah, blah, blah. If you get it wrong, you’ve got to do it all over again. It can take a lot of money and a lot of time to re-do that.

Somebody has to rewrite it, tweak it, have the designer change the page, run some test traffic, see if it works, see if it converts, and it just goes on and on. Whereas, if you did a webinar, you just jump on. Nobody’s really expecting the slides to be Hollywood quality. In our marketplace, people expect the slides to be professional, but not like a work of art, like some sales pages have to be.

So you can generally do the slides yourself. You run the webinar. I talk to people. They can hear who you are. They get a feel for who you are and if it doesn’t pop the first time, it’s very easy to edit it for next time. You change your slides, you just change what you’re saying and there isn’t a whole bunch of expense or a whole bunch of time working with third parties to fix it. That’s what I like about them.

Jo: And do you think… what about webinar fatigue? I get asked quite a lot by people, “Do you think webinars have been done to death now, Jo?” What’s your thoughts on that?

Steve: Well, it’s interesting. There’s a couple of people right now that are kind of playing that angle and it’s generally followed shortly by, “Buy my new thing because this is the next growing thing.” It’s like, “OK. So you’re saying this is rubbish, so you can position your thing is what people need to buy.”

But, if you think about it, it’s like saying, selling in person is rubbish and is over. It’s nonsense. It’s how you’re using the tool. If you’re some sort of scummy ClickBank artist and you’re putting out garbage and you’re just doing pitch fests and you’re not giving any value, of course people are going to get fed up with you and your rubbish.

Or if you’re drawing on forever on your life story and build this whole rags to riches thing and don’t give people any value then, yeah, of course people get bored and they tend to drop off. But if you’re giving genuine value to the people that are attending the call, you’re teaching them stuff, you’re actually giving them useful information and then, there’s an offer at the end to help augment that or make it go faster for them or easier, I think it’s ridiculous to say that webinars are over.

A lot of people, especially in our marketplace, don’t realize that in IM, yes, you see a lot of webinars right now, because they work. That’s why everybody’s using them, because they work so well. They convert at double what sales letters or video sales letters are converting at. Their price points can be five, ten times higher than another product from a sales pitch and you can still make that sale because you’re developing that trust.

So it’s the tool and people are using it. When they use it correctly, you’re going to have amazing results. If you abuse it, you don’t know what you’re doing, then, yeah, you can fall flat on your face. For example, I’ve worked with some clients over the last year who’ve designed launches, who’ve designed webinars as part of that process and we’ll pull out six-figure sums on webinars quite easily.

Almost everybody I know that’s using them is generating at least these five-figure sums on a webinar, when they know what they’re doing and their marketing is good. Some other people… for example, I was working with John Sugar [SP] over the summer, helping him with his mailer millionaire webinar. This thing was cranking out. It got to the point where, even from one JV partner, I think it was $227,000 from one JV, from one webinar, with replays.

Jo: Wow.

Steve: Of course, as you know, you can run the webinar three, four, five times a week, however many times you want to sit down and do the webinar, so you can [run about] with as many partners. You can’t do that with any other medium. Regardless of what people say about how many clicks you’re going to get for one cent on Facebook, you aren’t going to pull $227,000 out of it.

Jo: No.

Steve: Yes, I say poppycock to that. [laughs]

Jo: Poppycock. Good. Also, what people need to remember is that the IM market is like a speck. You know, it’s tiny. Webinars may be quite popular in our niche, but I would imagine that across the globe there are hundreds and thousands of businesses that don’t even know what “webinar” means.

Steve: Yes, I think that’s what people don’t realize. Even in staying in marketing, if you look at the different niches…

Jo: You know, that will need help and assistance…

Steve: Yeah, definitely. If you look at dating or health and fitness, any other niches, hardly anybody’s using them. Some of the guys in California here I know, I’m helping them out do some webinars. They’re going to be in the dating niche and they’re moving into that next because they had a fantastic video sales letter, but other people are starting to copy it and it’s becoming less effective.

So now they’re going to move on to webinars and start doing webinars in different niches, so [T’s] enormous. It’s a blue ocean strategy. That basically means, if you take it outside of where everybody else is using it, you’ll have great results. I was on an interview last week or the week after, with Ezra Firestone, who has a lot of e-commerce stores specifically for older generation cosmetics.

He uses webinars in all of this e-commerce stores to great effect, not necessarily just for selling, but for positioning, for branding, for generating trust with the clients, for explaining what the product line is and the sales just go through the roof. So he’s used it that way very successfully. He’s also sold immensely expensive parcels of land in Uruguay via webinar. You just get the buyers and the real estate company to come on, give them a tour and show them the land and the plots and he’s made a lot of money that way.

Another example would be a friend of mine over in Japan, James Brown. James… I think he was in Tokyo for awhile and a couple of years back, he started doing webinars with a water filtration system. It was a very high-end Italian water filtration system for purifying your tap water. I think it was like 3,000 bucks and he came up with the idea that this would be a fantastic product to pitch to new mothers, because obviously, they want everything perfect and sanitary for their babies.

He advertised in all the baby magazines, all the online magazines for babies, [neat] people, blah, blah, blah. He generated over a million dollars in sales for a $3,000 water filtration physical product using webinars, because he can get on, explain the whole subject to people, garner their trust and go into great detail of why it’s good and how it works. The tool is immense. It’s fantastic, and so that’s why I do them.

Jo: Oh, I love that James Brown story. I love that. I tell you why, because I’m always telling my community, when they’re going out there and they’re selling their products or services, what’s so important is to know their market. They really need to know exactly who their market are intimately. The fact that James Brown went after a very specific target market and said, “I’m going to go after new mothers. This is my market,” it just proves my point. So that’s a brilliant story. That’s excellent. I love that.

Steve: Yeah.

Jo: So how do people get started, Stephen? I get a lot of questions from people who are like, “Jo, I want to do webinars, but it looks really technical and I don’t know what to talk about.” There’s this really big fear barrier that’s stopping them from moving forward and just going and doing it. So what’s your advice and how can people just start and get it off the ground nice and easily and simply?

Steve: Sure. Well, the easiest thing for people to do when they’re starting the webinar, obviously, is to go to somebody that knows what they’re talking about. Pick up a product or training course. It’s going to show you step by step what you need to do, so you’re not trying to reinvent the wheel, because I know some JV partners or some guys that have tried to do it themselves, it can take them months of trial and error before they get it right.

But if you have a blueprint or a proven strategy, that would make it ten times easier. These days the technology has gotten so much easier that you can literally set up a webinar in under five minutes flat, once you have the webinar platform, once you set up your user ID. I demonstrate this usually when I’m on a webinar now. I will, in under two minutes, I’ll sign up to a webinar service, I’ll schedule the first webinar and I’ll have the links ready to send out to somebody. That’s how fast it can be.

The other thing people worry about as well is talking. They’re very worried about doing a webinar and the great thing about that is, it’s not like a hangout. This is taking it to a new level, where you’re actually in front of a camera and you’ve got to worry about people looking at you and what you’re going to say. If you’re doing a webinar, it’s a bunch of slides with just you and a microphone in a bedroom or an office, wherever it may be.

You don’t have to have this huge fear of, “Oh, my God. Everybody’s listening to me. They’re just going to laugh if I fluff up a line.” I believe when you first started out with webinars, you had a few technical snafus along the way, but it didn’t hurt you now, did it? [laughs]

Jo: No. [laughs] No, it hurt my pride, probably, at the time but that was about it.

Steve: Yeah. So I’d say, it’s a bit like riding a bike. When people haven’t done it before they’re like, “Oh, I could never do that,” but after you’ve been on a couple times, OK, you might fall off and scrape your leg, but big deal. Then you get on and it’s second nature after that. Then the results, as I mentioned…

I was talking to you before the call, I did a webinar… I’m sorry, not webinar. A hangout, just a couple of days ago with another marketer and this was purely just like this one we’re doing now where it’s conversational. You’re talking about stuff. We’re not trying to pitch a product or sell people anything.

But just by purely putting that content together and putting it out and letting his listeners consume it and go, “Oh, actually, this is pretty good. He knows what he’s talking about and it sounds like a good product,” his conversions and his EPCs, his earnings per click, have doubled what any other marketer is doing right now on my launch, as of today. So it just shows you how powerful this stuff is at doubling it and then doubling it again, just because you’re getting to that stage where you have a connection with the audience and they go, “Hm, OK. He’s not a bullshit artist. I can trust him.”

Jo: Wow. That is incredible, isn’t it?

Steve: Yeah.

Jo: Talking about hangouts, where do you think hangouts now kind of fit into that webinar mix?

Steve: Sure. Again, that’s an interesting question that a lot of people say, “Well, aren’t hangouts the new webinars? Are we just going to forget webinars now and just do hangouts?” I would say no, not really, because the technology, the platform, isn’t quite there yet. There are some restrictions with it, things you can do, things you can’t do. A webinar for a structured sales presentation, where you have a lot of money riding on it that the technology isn’t going to fail you, is a lot better.

One of the big benefits, and this is getting back to what you were talking about earlier when you were talking about knowing and understanding your audience, being able to do a little bit of research, is that on a webinar you have a great amount of flexibility on how you can interact with your audience.

When you set it up, you can send them a survey beforehand, there’s questions and answers during it, there’s polls. People can ask questions by raising their hands. At the end, you can have an exit survey as well and then, after you’ve run your webinar, you can run a bunch of reports, which will give you statistics on how the webinar went.

It will show you the peaks and troughs of interest, where people dropped off, how many people were [inaudible 00:20:00] questions. Then you can analyze that and figure out, “Well, how can I make this better?” So if you were doing an hour presentation… Excuse me, my earpiece is acting me up.

If you were doing an hour’s presentation, everybody drops after half an hour, you can look at your presentation and go, “Well, I must’ve been pretty boring at that point, so I’ll swap that out with something else.” On a hangout, you don’t have any of those tools. You can’t analyze that kind of stuff and there isn’t really a mechanism for having a very easy interaction with your audience.

Right now in a hangout, you’ve got to go across the YouTube and then try and monitor two screens and type things in. If you’re in a sales environment… which this isn’t right now, this is just us chatting. But if you’re in a sales environment and you’re specifically there to demonstrate a product and to sell it, that’s all very distracting and it’s not the best way to do things.

Also, you can’t push out a URL to your buyers on a hangout. For a lot of people, they’d much rather just click on a link and be taken to a sales page to buy, than having to remember what your URL was and type it in and hope they didn’t make a typing mistake.

So right now, hangouts have been used most effectively as almost a [book ending] tool, where you would use a hangout for additional interviews or [master class] information around a webinar, just to get more interest and more trust involved, so when you funnel people into the webinar itself the results are even better.

There’s a very good friend of mine, David Spragg [SP], over in Florida, who’s been doing this very successfully. I think over the last year, he’s run this multiple times on webinars and he’s having six-figure webinars as an affiliate with other people’s products, just by using this technique. So it’s not his product.

He’s just sending his list to somebody else’s product as a JV partner, as an affiliate, but because he’s taking to the time to do a little interview, sending them to the webinar and then, doing master class afterwards, this kind of combination of mediums is just sending his result through the roof. He’s getting easily, four, five, six, seven times more than other marketers that are just doing straight webinars by themselves. Powerful stuff.

Jo: Wow. So that is very powerful. Just staying with that, can you just explain to the audience that kind of affiliate webinar strategy? A lot of people will be sitting there thinking, “I really want to be an affiliate marketer.” I have a lot of my audience that are really interested in doing that and just talk us through how they can use webinars as an affiliate strategy.

Steve: Sure. Well, a lot of people use them very effectively in product launches because, if you’re… let me take a step back, first of all. As an affiliate marketer, what you’re going to be doing is capitalizing on somebody else’s hard work. So you don’t have to go out and make your own product and do your own sales page and have your own technical support and your help desk and blah, blah, blah.

You’re going out and finding quality products that already converts very well, that somebody else has done all the hard work for. Then when you promote that, you’re going to get 50% of the profits. It’s pretty standard. Same thing when you’re doing a webinar.

If you’ve got a list, you can generate a list and send that traffic to somebody else’s webinar, you will just be acting the host, like Jo is right now with this. The marketer niche, for example, would come on, do their presentation, show the product, make the pitch, do all the hard work and then, you just split profits.

So for somebody who’s just starting out and isn’t really sure, “Oh, do I have to be an expert? Do I need my own product?” you don’t. The things that David has been doing… he did one presentation… I think it was a $997 product that he’d never ran through his list before, used the strategy session, sent his list to the webinars and the hangouts for somebody else and he made well over $200,000 doing that with that..

It wasn’t even his product. He didn’t have to do the hard work. Then webinars are also great for building a list as well. If you don’t have a list [inaudible 00:24:01] presentations, you bring people on for free. You build your list that way. This is a great way for getting started with your list. Then, once you actually have a sales presentation as well… say, for example, you build your first webinar and it’s doing pretty well.

You get other JV partners to run your webinar, you split the profits, you make money that way. Then you can say to other people, “Hey, I’m building my list. I’ll run your webinar,” so it’s like a win-win situation for everybody, because you’re actually getting more people on your list, which is all the other buyers and the registrants from the other person’s list. You’re splitting the profits and then, you do the same with their products. When you get to that stage, it just starts taking off exponentially.

Jo: So can you do webinars if you have no list?

Steve: Yes. I believe your setup would be the fantastic case study for that, when you were doing your initial webinars. It was a Facebook app, wasn’t it, that you were giving away, way back in the day?

Jo: Way back in the day, yeah. My hundred dollar build-a-Facebook- fan-page app. Yeah, my first couple of webinars I had, like, 20, 30 people maximum on the webinar. Thank goodness, though. Thank God, because the webinar was sort of an absolute disaster. [laughs]

Steve: That’s not bad for being your first one.

Jo: But, yeah, so what you’ve just described though, Stephen, is awesome, because what you’re saying is you can essentially… as an affiliate marketer, you can go out and use webinars to sell other people’s products to your list. If you don’t have a list, you can use webinars to help you build your list.

Then, as you grow, if you then decide to create your own product, you can, A – use webinars to sell your products and use webinars to approach other affiliates and get them to sell your products for you. So it’s pretty much win-win-win all around. Webinars are incredibly versatile and can be used in all areas of your marketing strategy.

Steve: Yes and even the guys you’ll see on the forum spaces are with lower ticket front end products. Unless you buy it, you want to see the actual funnel itself, but I’ve been helping a lot of guys out with launches in that space over the last year. If they’re launching anything up to 27, 47, even up to a $97 product on the front end, once you get into that funnel, which is basically the products that they’re going to sell on the back end, it may go up to 100 or $200 by a sales page.

But at the end of that funnel, there will always be a webinar, as well and that’s where they’ll go for the high ticket price sales, which would generally double the revenue on any kind of a launch. Even though you might not see them, there’s a webinar in there all the time.

Jo: Now I want to talk to you about a really specific webinar strategy. I was in your Webinar Alchemy product the other day, which I have to say is absolutely chock-a-block full of information… I went in there and thought, “Wow. There’s just so much stuff in there. It looks brilliant.” I know that you have been working on it for a really, really long time.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Jo: Yes, there’s loads of information. So I’m going to talk to you about that in a sec and I want to ask you about a very specific strategy you talked about in there, which really piqued my interest. I thought, “Oh, that’s good.” I thought, “That’s really good. I’ve never done that. I’ve never used a webinar in that way.”

But before I get to that little point, I do just want to ask you quickly about sales pitches, because I know lots of people really struggle with sales pitches on webinars. Even I, after all this time of doing them, three years… even after some serious successes with sales pitches… I mean, I’ve done six-figures now on a few webinars now with sales pitches that I feel uncomfortable.

I just don’t find that they flow really easily for me. One of the things that I’ve always kind of disliked on sales pitches on webinars is the whole kind of, “It’s worth 85,000 bucks, but today, for you, you can have it for $97.”

Steve: Yes.

Jo: When you talk to people about putting webinars together, what are some of the sort of great pieces of advice you give them when coming to the sales pitch section?

Steve: Sure. Well, again, it depends where they’re at in their webinar career. A lot of beginners… is really exactly what you were doing because when you’re starting out and you’re a bit nervous about doing a webinar and then you got the extra pressure about, “Oh, I’ve got to do a presentation and pitch at the end. I’ve got to try and sell stuff,” you’re giving yourself too much of a hard job to begin with.

So for beginners, I would suggest that they really don’t do a pitch at the end. Do some content-only webinars. Get familiar with presenting. Get familiar with the setup, the technology. Get into your flow. Then, once you’ve done that a few times, you’re building up the audience. They’re trusting you, they’re liking you, they’re getting value, so when you do get around to pitching something or trying to sell them something on another webinar, they’ll be much more receptive to it and you’re much more calm.

What I try to tell a lot of my students and clients when they’re doing the actual selling [inaudible 00:29:01], “Just make sure you’re doing it ethically.” There’s a lot of people that will make up all kinds of nonsense about, “Oh, there’s only five copies available. Buy now.” It’s like, “Well, it’s an electronic product, you silly person.”

Jo: [laughs]

Steve: So, trying to tell people there’s five copies and we can’t sell any more than that is just BS. I’ve seen some guys and I’m not going to mention their names, because I get into enough trouble for that already, that will do this kind of stuff. They’ll go, “Oh, all 20 are sold out.” Of course, all they’re doing is building the scarcity so people are like, “Oh, damn. I can’t get in. I’m not in.”

Then they’ll have one mysterious refund or somebody’s transaction didn’t go through so, “There’s one copy left. Buy now.” You’re just watching that going, “Oh, just get me into the shower now. It’s just nasty.” There’s some unethical guys that will pull a lot of that kind of nonsense.

You definitely have to use it as an event. You have to get people a reason to buy now, but you can do it very ethically. The whole reason that webinars are successful is it’s a marketing event. You’re getting a special deal. You’re getting a special offer or a price or some kind of special bonus that you don’t get on a normal day-to-day basis and if you go to the website, you can’t find it or it’s a higher price.

So you do have to have some element of “buy now” for this reason in there. Like I say, that could be, for example, a discount for the first ten buyers. You could be giving a master class training to the people on the webinar itself. If you have got any kind of one-on-one or time intensive bonus components you offer, then you can say ethically that, “Yes, this is limited to the first 20 people, because I’m spending an hour with each of you to help you set things up. Obviously, there’s only so many hours a week and I can only do it so many times.”

In that situation, yes, [inaudible 00:30:48] 10 copies or 20 copies available and you can ramp up the pressure for buying. Just don’t make stuff up. There’s enough of those nasty marketers that, hopefully, we’re getting rid of these days out there. So, just do it ethically. There’s lots of ways to do it. We cover a lot of that stuff in the training that I do. Yeah, it can be done the proper way. And I’m going to buy a new headset. [laughs]

Jo: I was talking to… sorry. [laughs] That’s OK.

Steve: I’m just getting another call.

Jo: I was talking to a very experienced young man the other day, a very intelligent and clever young man, recommended to me by, none other than Stephen Renton, who told me, “Go and chat to this guy, Jo, regards copywriting.” Anyway, so I’m talking to this chap the other day, fantastic guy and we were talking about video.

I was saying to him, “Could you write me some scripts for some videos to go on a couple of sales pages that I’ve got?” He said, “No. No, I don’t need to write you scripts for your videos. You record your videos. You’re great on your videos.” “No, no, no,” I said. “I don’t want me on my videos. I want proper, professional-made videos.”

Anyway, he came back to me with this whole message that I must read Robert Cialdini’s Power of Influence, and he mentioned another copywriter, who I can’t remember his name now, Gary Benvarcini [SP] or something. He mentioned John Carlton. He said, “All of these guys talk about the power… one of the biggest sales conversion powers out there is the power of authenticity, is the power of openness, and honesty and frankness.”

Apparently, these guys say it’s one of the strongest conversion methods out there for any copy, is that power of openness, honesty and frankness. So what Stephen’s just talking about with your… if you are going to go and do some sales pitches on your webinars, is don’t do stuff that you don’t feel comfortable with.

Don’t come out with sayings or quotes or something because you’ve heard somebody else do it and you think you should, because the highest-converting webinars I’ve ever done are ones where I’ve dropped all of the rules of what a sales pitch should be and I’ve just gone out there and been me and said, “Look, I’ve got this product. This is what it is and I’d really like you guys to come on board.” That power of authenticity and just being open and honest goes beyond anything else.

Steve: Yeah, definitely. You don’t want to be another “me too.” People have seen enough of that. That’s when things really work well with marketing, when it’s something fresh, something original, it’s not stale or regurgitated. So that’s what people appreciate. Again, that’s why, at the moment, hangouts are starting to become so popular, because they do have that novel, new freshness.

For the guys that are talking about, “Oh, webinars are dead and over,” forget that. But hangouts are a new kind of version of that, so when you combine them with you’re combining them with your webinars and your sales presentations and with your hangouts, as well, it’s bringing that whole new element.

You can see what Jo’s doing, you can see what I’m doing, you can see the backgrounds. I desperately need to find the guy that designed these earpieces and go and smack them across [inaudible 00:34:06]. You don’t get that on a sales page or anything else.

Jo: [laughs] You need a pair of Logitechs. I’m telling you.

Steve: I’m trying to be professional. A friend of mine told me to go and get those in-ear things and, of course, he didn’t mention it drops out every 35 seconds. I’ll be scratching my ear like I’ve got something in it all through the call.

Jo: One of these days, I am actually going to get a mic and not have headphones on my head. I’m sure people think I was born with these headphones implanted on my head. Anyway, Steve, and I just want you to talk to us. As I said, I was in your Webinar Alchemy and I was watching one of your videos and you described a message.

You had a video all about the different methods of webinars and you described the method, which you called your psychic product creation method. I just thought, “God, that’s awesome.” I wonder if you… I know we’re kind of plucking a bit out of your course here, but I wonder if you could just spend a couple of minutes just telling us what that is because I thought it was a great strategy, really good and I’m going to start using it myself.

Steve: Yeah. That is a good one. Basically, when people are starting to figure out what they’re going to create a product on, especially when they’re starting out, it’s very easy to get wrapped up in the idea that your product is going to be the bees knees, and everybody’s going to love it and everybody’s going to want it.

Unfortunately, you can spend quite a lot of time under that presumption, building this awesome [dancing] product and spending a long time justifying that, but actually, nobody really is interested in that. It wasn’t really hitting the mark and the desire of the marketplace or the demand isn’t there for it.

The psychic model creation method was, basically, a way to get around that and be able to do some intel with your audience first and see if they are interested in it. This is something that Robert Stooks [SP], who’s one of the guys that came to me last year… Robert works in [Daredevil Marketing] and he’s doing very well with Ryan McKinney [SP] now, but when he came to see me last year Robert was…

He was doing a few things with his webinar. Some of them weren’t popping quite as well and I worked with him. We were looking at this particular method where, rather than create the whole product first, you would put out a webinar on the subject to your list or to your audience and say, “Hey, listen, I’m giving this presentation on,” say, for example, “ways to SEO your website with a new Twitter method.”

Obviously, I’m making it up off the top of my head here. You can put that out to your list and then say, “Listen, we’re going to give this presentation. We’re going to give great content, blah, blah, blah,” get everybody on the webinar, see what the content is like, deal with the interaction, get the questions and answers, get the service happening, see what people think about it, what the biggest questions are.

Do they like it? Do they not like it? Would they want to do further training? Then, you can do an offer at the end of the presentation. There’s different ways of doing it, but the way that Robert did it last year was very successful. He would pitch them on, I think it was a five or six-week course on that subject matter.

He’d give the free presentation, teach them a bunch of stuff and say, “Hey, listen, I’m going to actually do a product now with a six, seven-week course delivered via webinar on this. So if you guys want to learn how to do this…” and I think his particular one was on product creation, funnily enough. “Then sign up now,” and I think the price point was $497 and then, you go ahead over the following number of weeks, doing your webinar every week with your list and then, you deliver the product.

You hadn’t actually made it beforehand. Obviously, you have to have an outline of what it’s going to be, so you can talk about it intelligently on the webinar, but all you’re doing is planning out what the product would entail, not actually doing the work. Then, you pitch it to your audience. You get to see if they’re interested enough to buy it.

If they are, then you go ahead and you make it and you deliver it, instead of doing it the other way where you could be standing months and months and months to develop something, pouring your heart and all your expenses and your money and your time into it and then, find out that that wasn’t the right one to be doing.

So Robert did that last year very successfully. He pulled in about $40,000 in his first three webinars, delivered the course by a webinar, recorded the webinar sessions and packaged that up into a course, that’s now finished, that he can sell without actually being on webinars. It’s pretty much a genius model, I think.

Jo: Absolutely brilliant. I loved it. I just thought, “Gosh, that is absolutely fantastic.” Yeah, I’m looking forward to implementing that into my strategy. Anyway, what I want to do now is talk about Webinar Alchemy before we go, Stephen, because I have been in there the last couple of days and there’s a lot of great information in there and some great software, as well. I couldn’t believe the different apps and things you’ve got in there and all the interviews you’ve got with people and I’m in there. There’s a little interview with me in there.

Steve: Of course. [laughs]

Jo: [laughs] Yeah, there’s just loads of stuff in there. So can you just talk to us a little bit about Webinar Alchemy, because you have spent a long time putting that together, haven’t you? It’s been a bit of a passion.

Steve: Yes. Yeah, it’s interesting. This goes back to when I actually started in IM and it’s one of the reasons that I do share all my contacts, as you mentioned and connect people, because when I first started off, I worked with this mentor guy, moved on because that wasn’t working so well and then, I was going to a lot of mainstream IM guys, the big guys, the trustworthy guys.

You would be asking for referrals and half the time, people wouldn’t want to tell you who their designer was or who their copywriter was. It’s like, “Oh, that’s my secret. If I give it away everybody could go and do what I’m doing.” It’s like, “Really?” So I got some recommendations from copywriters and some video guys and page designers. A lot of them didn’t work out.

I spent a lot of money. I wasted a lot of money and I got shafted for a lot of money from that. That’s when I kind of found my way into the forum space. I know the big name guys in IM will knock forum space badly. They say, “Oh, it’s all junk. It’s garbage,” or whatever, but the people in there have some real integrity, I think, because it is very much more an open-minded environment.

Not open-minded. It’s an open environment where people will talk freely if somebody is doing unethical things or ripping somebody off or scamming. They’ll talk openly, they’ll share exactly who they’re working with, who the guys were that did the sales copy and the letters and stuff. That’s really well.

So, over the years, I started with Webinar Alchemy. It’s taken me more than a year to put this thing together because of some of the technical setbacks and problems with some of these people I was working with. It took a lot longer than it should’ve done, but it’s been my driving passion to put this together, to be the best thing possible.

I’ve been working, as I mentioned earlier, with a lot of the guys in my JV group, teaching them how to do webinars that I’ve been having incredible success and just helping them fine tune and tweak their presentations, their replay sequences as well, which is where you will send out replays of your webinar to your list. There’s certain ways of doing that where you can almost double your income when it’s done properly.

So there’s lots of little tweaks and techniques. Over the last year or so, I’ve worked with probably most of the biggest webinar guys in the industry, helping them with their webinars, brokering the webinars, being involved in all different kind of JV aspects, so I’d say I’m pretty well connected on the webinar scene.

I just wanted to put this product together and make sure that it’s a one-stop shop for everything that you need to know about doing online events. There’s nothing worse than having to go and buy one product and then, finding out it’s only part of the puzzle and you got to get something else and something else.

So, as you mentioned, there’s a lot of stuff in there and that shouldn’t be daunting to people because you don’t need to learn it all or use it all at once. But when you do get in there, it’s going to have everything you need. There’s guys that I know that have generated five and six-figure webinars from that information.

Robert, who I mentioned earlier, he teamed up with Ryan McKinney [SP], went on to do a water webinar through Daredevil Marketing last year. From that initial $40,000 dollars he made, they did $240,000 using webinars alone in their business last year. Again, that’s just using the strategies and techniques I was talking about, where once you get rolling with your first webinar that works, you’re building your list.

Other people will do the webinar for you because it converts. You split the money, then you’re on their webinars, you split the money and your list grows and grows and grows. So that’s from zero to $240,000 in a year. You can’t really tell me there’s too many other techniques you’re going to do that kind of money with. So, yeah, just…

Jo: There may be a lot in there, but it’s all really well organized, so you’re able to… when I went in there, you can go in and there’s the first section, which is the basics. It’s webinars 101 and it takes you through exactly how to… your first steps. That’s what I really like. You take people through the first steps.

This is exactly how you’re going. You set up a webinar and you take people through their first webinar and you show them some different webinar methods that they can put into practice and all the rest of it. Then you take them through to the next stage. OK, now let’s get into a little bit more advanced stuff. Let’s talk a bit more about the content and a bit more about how you’re going to present the webinars and all this kind of stuff.

Then you take them into even more advanced stuff. Now, let’s get… you don’t need… you only need the first couple of bits to get off the ground and then, as you’re practicing, you get into the more advanced stuff. Then, you’ve got the big section with software.

You’ve got apps and things that people can use to help them with their webinars and then, you’ve also got the experts and all of that kind of stuff so that people can listen to different interviews or the experts and get inspiration of how to do things. Then you’ve got, obviously, I mean, there’s loads of bonuses in there as well. I was… you can tell I was really impressed. I was blown away when I went in there. I thought, “Wow.” [laughs]

Steve: Thank you, Jo.

Jo: It was amazing.

Steve: Yeah, we’ve got a lot of nice feedback from people that have been buying into that after all this time. It’s funny because, as a [lot] manager, I’ve launched so many products for other people over the last year. When it’s come to my own launch, it was like, “Oh, what happens if it doesn’t work and the people don’t like it? I’m going to look like a real idiot.” But, of course, that’s just your own mind running in circles.

Jo: Yeah, you had some fear. Yay. [laughs]

Steve: Yes, I did. All my big JV partners are going, “Stephen, get your product out.” I’m like, “No, I’ll just launch this for somebody else.” Like, “Stephen, get your product out.” So, eventually, I’m like, “Okay, I’ll get my product out.” Like everybody else… I’ll stay on the camera here going, “Don’t be scared. Go and do it.” I was. But it’s working great.

It’s going great. The business is going to just go to the next level and I will not be launching for anybody else. I’m just realizing now the amount of work and effort that goes into a launch and the long term revenue and the long term benefits of doing your own stuff.

Jo: Yeah.

Steve: So, yeah, I’m not always a genius. I was dumb enough to do it for everybody else for a year, but at least I got the great experience and know exactly how things work during that process. But, yeah, you’re going to be seeing products from Stephen Renton from now on, not from anybody else.

Jo: Good for you, good for you. Well, I mean, it is a great product. If you want to have a look at Webinar Alchemy, then all the details are below this video, all right. So you’ll be able to go down below and get further details about it and see what it’s all about and all of that kind of stuff. So, good stuff.

All right. Well, just before we go, Stephen, I do always like to end the session by asking my guest… I always forget to warn my guests I’m going to ask this question. [laughs] Every time I put them on the spot and they go, “Oh, OK.” [laughs] I really ought to put this in my pre…

Steve: I can always pretend there’s a bad… “Sorry, can’t hear you, Jo. It’s breaking up. I can’t hear you. Nope. She’s gone. What can I do?” [laughs]

Jo: [laughs] So I’m going to put you on the spot slightly and just ask you. I like to end these sessions with something inspirational. So what I ask you is, through your career, has there been a book that you have read, a film that you have watched, a person that you have followed, a quote that you perhaps once heard, anything, kind of that’s really inspired you along the way that you can recommend to our audience?

Steve: Yes, that’s actually quite an easy question, because I was talking about this the other day. Phew. I was getting quite worried there. [laughs] Yeah, it’s not really related to marketing. You did mention Robert Cialdini’s book. I cannot pronounce that properly.

Jo: Cialdini, yeah.

Steve: Yes, that’s a fantastic one that people should always read on influence. But the book that’s probably had the most influence on me was, actually, a really old hippies book from the 70’s. I believe it was called Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I actually talk about this during my webinar.

It’s not a book about motorcycle maintenance. It’s, basically, trying to define what the concept of quality is and this guy goes on this big, long rambling story through a trip across American and into all the history of the Greek philosophers, trying to define: what is quality? Basically, that’s what I’ve kind of determined as I’ve gone through my business and my life.

If you try and do things with quality, as in you’ll bring… you’ll deliver quality to people in your marketing… the people that are around you, if you give them value, if you give them quality, it all comes back to you ten times. I think that’s probably one of the most influential books. It was a fantastic read. I loved it.

This story is great. I’ve read it about ten times. All of my close friends have been given the book for Christmas or birthdays or whatever. So, yeah, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, defining what quality is. If you go out to create products of quality, you deliver value and quality to your audience, you treat them well, your business is just going to grow exponentially. So that would be my tip.

Jo: Fantastic. Thank you. That’s awesome. OK, well, guys, underneath this video will be a link where you can go and connect with Stephen on Facebook. There will also be a link so that you can find out more details about his amazing product, Webinar Alchemy.

I’ll also put the links for The Power of Influence, and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, so that you can just go straight through and have a look at some of these things that we’ve talked about today. For me, that’s it. Stephen, it’s been awesome to talk to you. I’ve really enjoyed it.

Steve: Yeah, and great to use this technology to actually see you for the first time. [laughs]

Jo: I know. This is what I look like. [laughs]

Steve: I think it’s great, as well, that I get to be in the middle of the day and it’s all sunny and I’m rested and you’re up in the middle of the night.

Jo: [laughs] That’s the joy of… I don’t know why I picked Thailand. 90% of all activity I do is in the US and I have to get up at like 3:00 in the morning to be able to speak to anybody. [laughs]

Steve: Slight flaw there. [laughs]

Jo: Yeah, definitely. Anyway, not to worry. I’ll be in the US soon. Soon.

Steve: Good.

Jo: OK. Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us. I do hope that you have enjoyed this fantastic episode of Mind, Money, and Marketing. Stephen, you are amazing and you’ve been a fantastic guest, and thank you for all of the knowledge and the advice that you have given everybody today. For me, I will see you, everybody, next week. Buh-bye. Thanks, Stephen.

Steve: Thank you very much, Jo. Thanks for having me. Thanks, guys.


So what do you think about that? Pretty awesome right! Now’s the time for you to take some ACTION! Please comment below and tell me 3 things;

1. What was your AHA moment in the interview?
2. What one piece of action are you now going to take because of what you heard on the interview?
3. When are you going to do it by?

Thanks for listening! See you next week! :)

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  • Candace Chira

    Thank you so much for always sharing the pdf Joe. I really find that so valuable because I can take it with me to work or anywhere and read it. I’m not good with videos because I get antsy. lol.

  • Malcolm McLellan

    Loved the interview and the light hearted but in-depth information which came across. As always Jo shows herself to be the Queen of these events and her choice of guests are impeccable..

    Influence – The Psychology of Persuasion is one of my favourite text books and have referenced it many times when working with therapy patients.

    Zen & The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is another favourits of mine simply because it follows a similar path my mind does when solving problems.

    Interestingly enough the author Robert Pirsig, was a martial arts student of the late Bruce Lee in Hollywood and his interaction with the Master influenced (I believe) him to wite the book…

    • http://www.jobarnesonline.com/ Jo Barnes

      Thanks so much Malcolm, what a lovely comment. That’s an interesting fact regards Robert Pirsig! Thanks for sharing! :)